"I like to build": interview with Elena Lobova about her and her ACHIEVERS HUB service

In February, former iLogos CEO Elena Lobova launched the ACHIEVERS HUB service. Its task is to support indie developers. We are talking about both assistance in expert evaluation, marketing, and in finding investors or publishers. Editor App2Top.ru Alexander Semenov talked to Elena about her career in industry, management and, of course, a new beginning.

Lena, let’s start from the beginning. We’ll have time to talk about the service later. How did you get into the industry? Did it somehow contribute to this that you graduated from the East Ukrainian National University, which, if I understand correctly, is a technical university?

Not just a technical university, but a technical specialty. Few people know, but I am a master of computer Science and, according to my diploma (with honors, by the way!), a programmer. But I didn’t manage to work particularly in my specialty, since I got into iLogos even while writing my diploma.

I met the founder of the company Maxim Slobodyanyuk when I was looking for sponsors for my social project within the framework of the International student organization (AIESEC). After the collaboration, Maxim offered me a job at iLogos.

Education, of course, was in my favor, because thanks to him I understood how the development process was going on, I knew the basics of programming and I didn’t need to explain what a frontend developer was doing in a project and why I needed to be able to document code.

Do I understand correctly that you immediately started from a leadership position in the industry?

I can’t say that I didn’t have a briefcase at all. In the same international student organization, I held the position of vice president and was daily confronted with project management, process construction, team management, crisis management (the latter was probably the most). Maxim probably saw how I was coping with all this, working with me as a project sponsor, and decided to give me a chance to prove myself as an executive director of a small company at that time. It was a great opportunity for me to combine my technical knowledge and managerial skills.

What should a young leader be able to and know? Today, young professionals are not liked precisely because of the lack of experience and the need to retrain everything. It is much better to take a person who has been driving on some kind of track for ten years and, most likely, will drive on it for the same amount for another ten years. A young employee with a wide range of responsibilities is a very risky investment.

A controversial issue. It is just necessary to retrain those who have been driving along some kind of track for ten years. And young specialists can be taught and form their professional outlook within the company.

When hiring, it all depends on what type of leader is needed in a particular company in a particular position. If you need a charismatic leader, with a warm heart and burning eyes, who will motivate and energize the team, then a talented, but young specialist is perfect. If you need a functionary more likely to help build or tidy up the process, then it’s better to take a person with experience. It is important that there are leaders of different types in the company, so that they balance each other.

Photo: Lera Polska

When you came to iLogos, what was your main task as an operating director?

The company at that time was small, but growing rapidly, somewhere in the period of “Come on, come on” according to Adizes. It was necessary to build processes and organizational structure.

The first thing we took up was HR, as it was necessary to hire people quickly, and at the same time to select them effectively, so that there was no large turnover, so that the foundation for further growth of the company was laid.

At first I did everything myself, with my own hands: interviews, work with candidates, adaptation, motivation, building a corporate culture. Then I recruited people who were engaged in these processes. And so on in each functional area: finance, PR, business development and so on.

What were the difficulties and problems?

I think all fast-growing companies have the same problems, and they are mainly related to the need to adapt to a new number of employees, rebuild processes, change approaches. The company’s culture is also changing, because it will no longer be possible to maintain the same family environment as with 20 employees in a company of 100+. And the task of managers is to make it the least painful. And also – learn to delegate, hire specialists and give them freedom, give them the opportunity to make mistakes and not control every step.

You were responsible for recruiting, also for PR. And at the same time, she often acted as the face of the company. It doesn’t happen often. To what extent did such a scenario justify itself?

I justified it while the company was small, and there was an opportunity to do all this at the same time. For example, when I spoke to students, I immediately answered questions about hiring, did the initial selection of candidates. When the company grew, it became inefficient to combine several functions.

A small side issue. iLogos is an outsourcer. Today it is one of the largest in Eastern Europe. How much easier and safer is it to start as an autosource today?

Both in outsourcing and in the product, there are pros and cons. It is safer for an outsourcer to start from the point of view that initial investments are smaller and, if there are good business partners and a portfolio of employees, it is possible to reach operating profit faster. However, starting as an outsourcer now and starting, say, in 2011 is no longer the same thing. Now the competition is very big and it is difficult to bypass the major players in the market if you do not dump or do not have a rare skill. Large companies prefer to work with those they know and have been working with for many years, and you rarely get large orders from medium and small ones. Although, again, some outsourcing companies are closing down, starting to make their products, and the amount of work on the market is not decreasing, you just need to be able to get it.

Photo: Lera Polska

Let’s assume that some company decided to start this way after all. Is there a pitfall here that, having started as an outsourcer, then, if you dreamed of doing games, you are unlikely to become a developer of your own IP?

Of course there is.

Sometimes outsourcing companies come to me for advice and consultations, and I, as far as I have time, advise them. One of the first questions I ask them is: “Why did you decide to outsource?”. For someone it’s just a way to make money, for someone it’s entering the industry, someone wants to do their own projects later, someone dreams of working with major publishers on world-famous titles. Depending on the goal, the means also differ.

And if the goal is to start making their own products, then it will be more difficult for them later. Firstly, it is a way out of the comfort zone, secondly, the blurring of the brand, and most importantly, it is a radically different mentality of employees. Even when we were engaged in co-production projects at iLogos (projects in which the production and marketing function equally or even more belongs to the developer than to the customer), we specifically selected people with a product mentality for the team. Well, of course, everything is possible and there have even been successful cases of transition from outsourcing to a product, but we need to prepare for the fact that we will have to rebuild processes and change a significant part of the team.

In parallel with your work at iLogos, you launched a conference. And it happened a year after the start of his career at iLogos. How important was it then for the local market and how important is it now? Do the existing events not cover all the tasks?

Initially Get IT! it was conceived as a conference for Eastern Ukraine (the largest offices of iLogos at that time were there). All significant events were held in Kiev and not all Eastern Ukrainian developers got to them. And there were many talented and eager for knowledge and exchange of experience.

We understood this especially well when we organized a UAFPUG (Ukrainian Adobe Flash Platform User Group) meeting in Lugansk in 2011, to which more than 100 people came, although the announcements appeared quite late. People had to stand at the end of the hall because everyone couldn’t fit. Despite this, there were a lot of positive reviews, as well as requests to hold more events.

As a result, we held four Get IT conferences under the auspices of iLogos in 2012-2013! – two in Lugansk and two in Kharkiv. Then 2014 happened and even those events that were in Kiev left Ukraine. We have expanded the geography to the Dnieper, Kiev and Odessa.

I never had a goal to make a big business event out of this, I just wanted to bring interesting speakers and give our developers an opportunity to communicate with them and with each other. I am proud that I managed to attract speakers who were in Ukraine (or even in the CIS) for the first time.

Now the situation has changed, since the autumn of last year, conferences have begun to return to Kiev, we also have a large and strong Ukrainian event Games Gathering, and at the last Get IT! (September 2, 2017) I have announced that it will no longer be held. However, this does not mean that I will no longer do any events, but definitely not under this brand and for other purposes.

Let’s go back to iLogos. In 2015, you became the CEO of the company. How did this happen?

Two years earlier, the company’s founder Maxim resigned from the position of CEO of iLogos to run his new business, the Nika Entertainment product company. In 2015, co-founder and CEO Alexander Goldybin also decided to step away from the operational management of the company and changed the position of CEO to Chairman. As a result, I took on the role of CEO of the company, which I think was a very obvious step in my career.

Photo: Lera Polska

Were you ready to lead a company of 300 employees?

It seems to me that no one is ever completely ready for this. Although I felt confident, because by that time I understood all the processes in the company well and my vision of development was supported by the founders.

As CEO, you were at the helm for a year and a half. What kind of experience was it?

It was an experience when the very first thought in the morning in the head and the very last before going to bed – about the company. Moreover, between these two moments sometimes there was no more than 4-5 hours. And often – on the plane. I have learned a lot and learned a lot during this time, but definitely not maintaining the right work-life balance.

I am very glad that I managed to assemble a wonderful top management team that I could always rely on and whose professional opinion I could trust. I realized again how important it is for a manager not to be afraid to delegate and hire professionals, not allowing the company’s growth to rest against the limits of his own growth and his capabilities.

Correct me if I’m wrong, I see the situation like this: a young, fast-growing company is headed by a young, active manager. A great combination. But you’re leaving after a year and a half, why?

Part of it is burnout. Part of it is the desire to try something new after five and a half years of outsourcing.

Plus at that time I was also involved in a technology startup. At some point, I had a choice: to work fulltime in this startup and leave iLogos, or to stay in the company and stop getting involved in the startup. It was a difficult choice, because iLogos was more than just a job for me, he was the brainchild with whom we grew up together and went through a thorny path to success. But I made a choice in favor of the new and unknown.

And what happened to the startup?

Unfortunately, it didn’t work out with the startup, as it often happens with them. Then I decided to take a sabbatical for a few months, not accept any job offers, travel for my own pleasure and think in a calm atmosphere about where I want to move on.

The vacation was not exactly a vacation, since I held two conferences during this time, attended several more events and from time to time advised companies that contacted me. Nevertheless, the vacation fulfilled its task: it gave me inspiration, ideas and energy for new achievements, as well as an understanding of what I want to do.

As a result, I came to the conclusion that I love and can do more than the development of a single product or company, but ecosystem solutions. I like to build and form a community, to participate in the development of the industry as a whole, and it is thanks to my experience and connections that I have the opportunity to do this.

So you came to ACHIEVERS HUB, but how did the idea of a solution focused on helping indie teams come about?

Everything turned out naturally.

Even before its launch, teams periodically approached me with requests to help them find a publisher or investor, look at their game and give feedback, advise whom to talk to about this or that. They knew that I had a large enough international network that I could help.

Publishers and large companies who were looking for talented developers in Eastern Europe also talked to me and asked for advice.

These were isolated cases, but I liked doing it, and I thought, why not make my next project out of it? I started working on an idea, a business model, getting feedback from different stakeholders and realized that the service would be in demand.

Photo: Lera Polska

If we talk more about ACHIEVERS HUB, then the question is: do I understand correctly that the concept of the service is as follows: you select projects, help them with positioning, management tasks, and then take a percentage of sales.

Partly yes. The main idea is to select talented teams with interesting projects that have good technical and product potential, but not enough knowledge of business, marketing, as well as connections and skills for negotiations. We work according to the success fee model, respectively, if the project is successful and its goals in the hub are achieved, then the hub receives more.

Can you name the percentage or at least the fork within which you are going to work with developers?

On average 5-7%, depending on the situation. We understand that we also have to share with publishers and platforms, and we want developers to feel comfortable.

In ACHIEVERS HUB, a lot is tied to mentors, third-party specialists. How do you motivate them so that their help is constant, sensible, and not “for show” or self-promotion?

I initially select mentors from those who are interested in viewing projects, communicating with developers, giving feedback and increasing the number of successful games on the market. Many of them have not only been making games for many years, but also playing them. They are interested in seeing new talented products and taking part in their fate. Some are interested in the development of the community in principle, and the more successful projects are released, the more successful they themselves will be. Some specialists have moved away from the development of products as such and occupy managerial positions, but working with teams gives them the opportunity to apply their knowledge and accumulated experience. Everyone’s motivation is different, the main thing is to find the right approach.

Can you name the size of the team and the size of the investment?

Only I work at full-time, there are also assistants at part-time. So far, this is enough, since all the processes are just being rebuilt, and I’m used to building them myself. I will not disclose the size of the investment yet. I mainly invest in the project myself, partly with the help of colleagues from the industry; but I am open to additional proposals and am currently negotiating with a number of interested companies.

When do you plan to reach self-sufficiency?

According to my forecasts, in a year.

Now the first set of projects has started. Are there any preferences for projects and how many are ready to take immediately for support?

I have four projects that I’m already working with. We will be able to select 4-5 more. Despite the fact that the selection has just begun, there are already a lot of applications, and there are very good projects, so it will be interesting! Basically, these are mobile projects, casual or midcore. We are focusing on them for now, since mentors are mostly with such a background. Although there are PC and even VR projects. I think we will be able to work with all these platforms within a year.

I see. Thanks for the interview!