Interview with Red Winter Software

In early February, the game Dungelot 2 from the Russian Red Winter Software team appeared on the shelves of the App Store. Why the project was immediately withdrawn from sale after the release, we asked one of its creators, Dmitry Mitrofanov.

Dmitry Mitrofanov

Hi! Tell me about the studio.

Hi! Actually, we’re not really a studio. Rather, while the association of like-minded people. We work together with Alexander Yazinin, we met him when I was still working at Katauri. We decided to do something good together.

Why did you split from Katauri?

I left while still in the process of creating Royal Quest to make my own games. That was my original goal. I will not comment on Sasha. 

The question is off topic: Katauri herself is not going to do any mobile project?

I don’t have such information, but they should definitely do it.

There are a lot of fans of “Space Rangers”, many would like to see the third part on mobile devices.

You know, finishing the second part of Dungelot, I can definitely say that I don’t want to do the third, I want to take on something else. Perhaps Katauri is also not eager to make a continuation of its space saga. But, honestly, I would love to play the third part. I myself grew up on the “Space Rangers”, I am infinitely glad to have the experience of working with their creators.

“Space Rangers”

Tell us about the creation of the first Dungelot. As I understand it, it was created in my spare time at Katauri?

And so, and not so. I took up the game after leaving the company, but during the direct work on Dungelot I did other small projects. They were about nothing at all, but it was necessary to spin. It was harder to work then than it is now. I had to do a lot of things alone.

And how much do you estimate a small team needs to create and launch a game?

I think that for comfortable development (it is clear that comfort is a stretchable concept, everyone has their own) you need at least $ 10 thousand. I invest in this money the opportunity to leave work, pay for some small things. But, in any case, it will be very difficult. You’ll have to do most of the work yourself. At this stage, no one will do the work for you better than you yourself. 

If the team decides to graduate on their own, it’s a good idea to get a lawyer and take a more serious approach to the organization of the company.

When you were working, did you resort to the help of autosourcers?

Yes. Of course, I didn’t do everything myself. There was such a garage development. I have a lot of friends in the industry, someone just helped, with some, like, for example, with the artist who drew a good half of the game, I collaborated on a paid basis. 

Dungelot

How long did it take?

8-9 months of development was underway.

Was the success unexpected?

Yes. I won’t lie, I wanted him, hoped for him, because without him I would have had to look for a job somewhere again. However, when you are already in the ninth month (drama!), when you are tired, you don’t want anything anymore, only to finally release the project. Therefore, at this stage I did not expect anything, I did not hope for anything.

And how did you promote the project?

I understood the need to communicate with the media, journalists and maintained contacts with players who were important in my eyes.

And how did you find influential players? 

When you regularly communicate with people on the forum, you see the attitude of the players to each other. You see those whose opinions are listened to (they often run their own blogs and tweets, write great materials). When they see something interesting, they start sharing it. 

I have so many first contacts on TouchArcade. Word for word, I posted the game topic, communicated with moderators, asked players about their opinions. And so a small community was formed.

A new character for the second part

Cool promotion strategy! 

You could say that. I don’t see the point in keeping the game in the “shadow”. It is necessary to share information about the game, to observe the reaction of players to it, those who will then leave their money in the project.

By the way, why did you decide to publish the project yourself?

By yourself… it was one of my big wishes. I understand perfectly well that I would most likely earn much more with a publisher, but I am satisfied with this experience. Less red tape. Perhaps in the future we ourselves will grow up to the publication of other people’s games, but for now we are gaining experience.

And how much did you manage to earn on the project?

I won’t say, but it’s decent for one person, considering the costs.

When did you release the first part ?

A year ago.

Dungelot 2

And the money earned was enough to organize the team. Are you already sitting somewhere in one place?

No, we’re not sitting yet. We did most of the work together. 

Is this due to financial reasons?

It doesn’t really depend on our success. This is our, let’s say, concept – to stay as mobile as possible. We are well aware that there is a huge competition in stores right now. It seems to me that this can be compared with the gold rush. Any step that leads to the wrong result can greatly affect us. It’s much more comfortable for me to work from my place. We worked all year without seeing each other. And I think it is quite successful. I do not exclude that after the second part we will be closer to each other, and there will be more of us. At the moment, I feel comfortable in a team of 4-5 people. This is more than enough for our current purposes.

It is clear that when we finished the first part, there were a lot of unrealized ideas. But, what exactly did you not like, with what concept did you go to the second part?

In fact, there was a very spontaneous development. Even then, a year ago, I was thinking about some other game. I even started making some prototypes. But in the process of communicating with Sasha, we came to the conclusion that we need to do the second part. It was difficult for me to maintain the first part and, to be honest, I didn’t want to do it. In fact, it was necessary to rewrite a number of things, and this is already the second part. Plus, Sasha himself is the god of art (may the other gods forgive me), so I had to do something from a new leaf.

I wanted to add more tactics to the game. 

A map has also appeared in the game

The first part had a lite version with limited functionality and there was a paid version. The second part became free-to-play. Was it difficult to decide to switch to another monetization? How did they come to this decision at all?

Sasha came, say, from the world of free-to-play (the last couple of projects he worked on were f2p), and I am the same independent developer who believes that people are ready to buy good products. But we sat together, thought about it and decided why not try to make a similar project. 

Now we understand that we have greatly overestimated our strength. In order to make a game-service, you need a lot more people and funds. It was very difficult for me alone, as a programmer and game designer, on the project. To do everything so as not to annoy the players, not to seem like a “greedy bastard”, to polish everything as much as possible – it does not work. So we will no longer make free-to-play games until we are ready for it. 

And how, apart from monetization, is the second part of Dungelot radically different from the first?

It seems to me that we have made a very successful interface in the dungeons. There are such thick, fat, big buttons that are nice to press. I was very annoyed by the game interface in the first part. Here are these little squares of inventory, it was unpleasant to press them. 

We have added new elements. For example, manu. It is needed to destroy totems or dispel curses/debuffs. Totems are used to strengthen monsters on the map and are divided into several types. Almost all monsters have added unique abilities to make it interesting to fight with them. 

Added “strategic” cells. These are cells, for the opening of which a certain bonus is immediately issued. For example, an increased attack on the next hit.

We have also added armor, although we may have to redo it yet. 

Added a health restriction. Now the maximum value does not increase when hearts are collected in the dungeon.

An interesting innovation: things that can be used in different ways inside the game. For example, you found a shield, it can either add armor to you, or you can throw it at a monster, thereby stunning the enemy. 

There is a new equipment that you knock out of the bosses. All equipment can be improved.

Delaying the monster’s strike — each monster hits with its own speed, someone hits more often, someone less often.

On one of the forums I found a screenshot of the second part with a curious combat system. As you can guess from the version that appeared on the App Store, the system did not survive until the release. Why?

The players didn’t accept it, and I decided not to take any chances.

The same screen

I really liked in the first part that the hero is gradually gaining in levels, from this his characteristics grow. As I understand it, monetization is tied to this in the second part. You buy additional bonuses to attack and health for the game currency, and during the passage of the characteristics do not grow.

No. It’s actually my fault that people took it that way. Firstly, there is no concept of levels in either the first part or the second. Secondly, in the second part it is much easier to develop a hero than in the first, if only because you knock artifacts out of monsters. 

I have not clearly shown that all these things can be improved – swords, shields, and much more. But I don’t think it’s unfair if a user has to play a little longer in a free game for more coins than in a paid one.

Do I understand correctly that this is the main reason why the game was removed? She seemed to be ready.

She looked ready. Most of the errors were related to the following point. I’ve never done free-to-play, and I didn’t want to turn to anyone for help.

Plus, when I start thinking about free-to-play, I stop thinking about the game. Otherwise I can’t do it.

And what will happen to the project?

Everything will be great with the project! What am I happy with? Most of all – the relationships within our team. We don’t have this: “you are to blame for this failure.” We talked, agreed that free-to-play is too much for us, that we need to change something, that we want to make games that will be a fan for people. Any mistakes can be corrected. We have planned updates for six months ahead. The project will develop.

I was shocked when I received emails like “I spent $50 on runes to complete the game further.” I answer him: “boy, you can play without runes, just die a little more, get to the sword, pump it up and everything will be fine.” 

This is already a different mindset for different groups of players.

Yes, different thinking. I read the whole stream of negativity that is being dumped on us. It’s very hard, on TouchArcade 68 pages…

And all this is negative?

Most of all, it is him.

And what, apart from monetization, do they find fault with the most?

Bugs and various unfinished elements.

For example, the screen of death. We had a slider timer. You had to wait to get into the menu, or, after spending a rune, be reborn and continue playing. If the player poked at any point on the screen before the timer expired, the rune was removed (if there was one, but the player might not want to be resurrected), or the player was thrown into the store to buy additional runes. We made a menu without a timer, on the buttons.

The interface on the map and inventory were not obvious to everyone. This greatly affected the quality of the gameplay. Now we are simplifying and making the interface more friendly.

Those who were lucky enough to figure it out found the game good and interesting. In general, there were conflicting opinions and assessments. This suggests that we have a place to grow.

Corrected version of the store in Dungelot 2

And when to wait for the release?

Oh, not before a month. There are many major changes planned. We will also fix bugs, work on monetization.

Now the main thing is to correct mistakes and make it as interesting as possible, while remaining difficult.

And a small question at the end. In those 24 hours that Dungelot 2 was in the store – did it bring money?

Yes. And if I was at least half as greedy as some players put me out to be, I wouldn’t have removed the project from the store. I was quite satisfied with those amounts. 

Thanks for the interview!